Although he continued to say the "old" Mass in Latin, he used the new form of the Eucharistic prayer.
[Important note: So that you can better understand the heated arguments in the comments section, one of the sites that linked to this post wrote a headline that Padre Pio had "learned the new Mass". This is clearly NOT what I write in this post.]
It is well-known that Padre Pio was allowed to continue saying the traditional Latin Mass instead of being required to use the new form initiated after Vatican II. There is a famous video of his last Mass, in which he is seated and facing the congregation. At the end, he stumbles and is rescued by the American friar, Brother Joseph Pius.
In a hard-to-find book, Padre Pellegrino, one of the priests who was an assistant to Padre Pio for many years, writes of his experiences with the saintly friar of the Gargano. Originally published as a series of articles in the Friary's magazine, The Voice of Padre Pio, they were gathered into book form by popular demand, edited by Fr. Alessio Parente. In this volume, it is revealed that Padre Pio was required to use the new form of the Eucharistic prayer during his Mass.
"When Padre Pio expressed his opinion on the liturgical reform, it contained a controversial hint or two, but he did not reveal even the slightest shadow of rebellion. On the contrary, precisely with regard to this reform, not only did he edify me with his submission, but he even succeeded in moving me to tears with his scrupulousness.
In 1966-67 Padre Pio received permission from the Holy See to celebrate Mass in Latin, and seated. However, the Holy See allowed this under two conditions: that he celebrate facing the people, and that he use the new rite of the Eucharistic Prayer.
Padre Pio received news of the dispensation one evening before going to bed and, knowing of the conditions, he begged the Superior to teach him the new form of the doxology. After he had seen how he should raise the paten, with the Host and the chalice, he thanked the Superior and appeared to be satisfied.
During the night he called me and said: "Do me a favor. Go and get the chalice and the paten in the little church and let me see the new rite once again." And I did so.
That scene, with his asking pardon and thanking me, repeated itself at least seven or eight times. I was not tired but the last time, I could no longer tolerate his scrupulousness and I muttered through my teeth "I don't understand why this Holy Mother Church must bother a poor, old and ill priest."
He grasped the sense of my words, and almost crying, he said "Why are you speaking against the Church which has asked so little of me? It is I who, desiring to carry out the new rite well, am bothering you a little. You must forgive me." And I said, "But do the rite as you wish!" At this point, he returned to decisive tones: "No, I must perform the rite precisely as the Church desires."
Pp. 401, 402; Padre Pio's Jack of All Trades, Fr. Pellegrino Funicelli, OFM Cap., San Giovanni Rotondo, 1991.
He grasped the sense of my words, and almost crying, he said "Why are you speaking against the Church which has asked so little of me? It is I who, desiring to carry out the new rite well, am bothering you a little. You must forgive me." And I said, "But do the rite as you wish!" At this point, he returned to decisive tones: "No, I must perform the rite precisely as the Church desires."
Pp. 401, 402; Padre Pio's Jack of All Trades, Fr. Pellegrino Funicelli, OFM Cap., San Giovanni Rotondo, 1991.
View my Padre Pio books and others: books.
Just to be clear the Mass in discussion was the John XXIII Mass and not the one which is currently in use in the Novus Ordo Church which Paul VI had created. Is that Correct Frank?
ReplyDeleteRight this was the Latin Tridentine Mass still in use in 1968, even though John XXIII made a change to it. Regarding the 'new rite of the Eucharistic prayer" mentioned in the article, which Padre Pio was required to use, it was the Latin version of the new rite then in development, which was not formally approved until 1969. The fact that they made Padre Pio face the congregation shows that they were already tinkering, developing, and using a Novus Ordo service even before
ReplyDeleteit was officially promulgated.
1 Samuel 15:22
ReplyDeleteRead A Bitter Trial by Evelyn Waugh. These were the three little words he wrote to his bishop when stating how he felt when it was obligated to attend the new mass.
ReplyDeleteIf only the traditional Latin Mass was approved in English or the one that Padre Pio used facing the congregation was still in effect today - I feel it would bring more spirituality to the Catholic Mass.
ReplyDeleteSt.Pio in the picture is not facing the people. It is my understanding that there was not anything specific in the documents that said one must face people. That is so protestant.
ReplyDeleteThanks for this observation. I have found a picture of him saying Mass at a "table" and facing the congregation with his back to the wall, and have inserted this in place of the prior one.
DeletePadre Pio, great saint and loved his mother, the Church as few have ever done. What would he say today, if he were here and could see what the Novus Ordo has led to; empty churches, catholics who don't live or believe as catholics, a carnival atmosphere inside most churches and a church infested with homesexuals. I guess that is why God took him when he did.
ReplyDeleteIts too bad you think a carnival atmosphere exists in most churches. Very condescending. Most of the falling away is the culture of secularization and moral relativism in everything outside the church especially high schools and universities
DeleteI fully agree. to use "obedience" to foist upon this aging, dying saintly man, the protestant substitute called the novus ordo, was a sin which, I'm sure, God will not forget when it comes time to judge those who imposed this apostasy upon him.
DeleteVery deceptive article, and using Padre Pio to deceive. Everyone reading this, or the Michael Brown headline, will think you are referring to the Mass of Paul VI.
ReplyDeleteExactly right. This is inaccurate and deceptive. A correction is necessary.
DeletePlease see my replies below
DeleteI make it clear in the subtitle that Padre Pio continued to say the 'old' Mass in Latin, except for the Eucharistic prayer.
ReplyDeleteI second Mr. Carmichael's comment. The article misleadingly portrays Padre Pio as celebrating the Novus Ordo Mass of Paul VI and misleadingly implies that Padre Pio endorsed it. At best, this is inaccurate and sloppy journalism; at worst, it is spin and ideology.
ReplyDeleteAs I said, I make it clear in the subtitle that Padre Pio continued to say the 'old' Mass in Latin, except for the Eucharistic prayer. I can not be responsible for the way other sites headline the article.
ReplyDeleteIt is only clear because commenters made it clear. Your use of the terms "old" and "new" is ambiguous. Most people reading "new" would think of the Mass of Paul the VI, and most people reading "old" would think of the Tridentine Mass, whether the pre or post 62 version. You must know this. I will now be writing to Michael Brown about this. You are aiding and abetting a fraud.
DeleteYou don't know what you are talking about.
DeleteObedience to the Church is the first stepping stone on the road to Heaven, if we miss that first step we could get lost!
ReplyDeleteI love this article..
It was not clear to me until I read the replies. Today we had Fr. Ramble and a baptism. So many jokes, father got out his guitar and sang, the little kids were invited up, no true homily, just a rereading of the gospel. It was a circus, a long one too. I had to endure. But so distressed that I was not in a good disposition for holy communion. Cannot recall the last time that happened. I cannot stand it when Mass is a joke.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry however the article looks suspicious and inaccurate. Why would Padre Pio need permission to celebrate the Mass in Latin in 1966-1967? Latin was the only language of the Mass until there were official vernacular translations of the Missal of Pope Paul VI. The Missal of Paul VI was not promulgated until 1969. A similar question then is raised against the comment "a Pope Paul VI approved the Novus Ordo. The comment also about facing the people sounds sketchy as well. How could it come from the Vatican when, again, there approved 'new' or preferably reformulated Eucharist Prayer. It did not happen until the reformulated Missal was approved in 1969. Finally, a priest does not receive permission to celebrate the Mass in Latin. One receives permission to celebrate the Mass of the Roman Rite in the vernacular. The statement in the article is flat our inaccurate or incomplete. In addition, there were no vernacular approved liturgical editions in the 1960s. They do not appear until the Mass of Paul Vi was promulgated in 1969.
ReplyDeleteThe Tridentine Mass was also said entirely in Church Slavonic (in Croatia), Greek (found less proof of this), and Chinese. One could argue that Church Slavonic and Greek are also liturgical languages and that Chinese is so distinct from Latin, but it is technically not true that Latin was the only language. However, my understanding is that a few churches (or maybe a territory) would be given permission to celebrate in another language and then it would slowly be permitted (though still not widely) to other areas (thus allowing the first few churches to solve the issue of developing chants and music for the adapted languages).
DeleteThe actual author of the article quoted in the blog lived and worked with Padre Pio for many years, so he knows of what he speaks. He was there!
ReplyDeleteI am sure Padre Pio was saddened by Vatican II. If anything, this shows that the N.O. mass is valid, nothing more.
ReplyDeleteGood Point. Perhaps that is why some are so upset by this article. The fact that he was willing to learn and use the new Eucharistic prayer speaks Volumes! Please see my prior article on this blog, "Padre Pio was not a rigid Traditionalist."
DeleteHE died in 1968, he never said the NO mass. This proves nothing. The Eucharistic prayer that he was probably presented was most likely a version of Eucharistic Prayer I. This is the only Eucharistic Prayer that comes close to the immemorial Canon of the Roman Rite. Perhaps when he read this version he saw no significant change in substance. I fear this is all speculation.
DeletePADRE PIO, DIED IN 1968 SO HE DID NOT SAY THE NEW MASS OF PAUL VI. I READ ELSEWHERE THAT TOWARD HIS END HE COULD NOT STAND FOR LENGTHS OF TIME. THE MODERNIST INFILTRATORS SET UP THE ALTAR TO TABLE POSITION TO GET CLOSE UP PHOTOGRAPHY OF HIM AND FOR POLITICAL STATEMENT FOE NEW MASS.
ReplyDeleteTo obey with respect to which Eucharistic prayer to say or Whether to face the congregation or not is one thing. To profane the Sacraments of Marriage, and of Reconciliation, and above all to profane the Holy Eucharist is something that Padre Pio would never have brought himself to do even if it meant disobeying the Holy Father.
ReplyDeleteYes, I have been wondering just what stand Padre Pio would take regarding Pope Francis. I believe he would accept him as pope, but would he give Communion to a divorced and remarried person who had not obtained an annulment?
DeleteThe modernist pseudo catholic church would love to claim Padre Pio as one of their own. They need to distort the entire history of the Church in order to justify their protestantization of the mass and faith.
ReplyDeleteHumility.
ReplyDeletePadre Pio, pray for us. All of us.
Thank you, Kolbebrother. Perhaps the most relevant post on this page.
DeleteThe episode relayed from the book is quite edifying... The presentation of "old" and "new" in the article is not, as others have indicated.
ReplyDeleteI actually happened to be at the saint's tomb yesterday - maybe he sent me here to offer this!
After reading some of these comments, it seems apparent that Padre Pio's love for the church 'ended' when the mass changed. If that be the case, why would he be canonized by a church that changed the mass? I don't understand.
ReplyDeleteIf you read the last paragraph of the article again, it should be clear that his love for the Church persisted.
DeleteThere was no new Eucharistic prayer while Padre Pio was alive. There may have been slight changes to the gestures the priest made, but no change to the text of the Eucharistic prayer. The article is inaccurate.
ReplyDeleteMr. Rega, in fairness to you, many of your commanders are ignorrant of their history. The mass of John XXIII was of 1962. In late 1964 a Vatican II document was misunderstood and it was believed that you had permission to do the mass facing the people. In late 1965 the so called 1965 missal came out. In 1967 permissionfor the mass in the vernacular came, along with a two year weekday lectionary. In early 1968 the new Eucharistic prayers and slightly revised Roman Canon came out. Padre Pio dies late September 1968 and the new mass come out on the first Sunday of Advent in November 1969.
ReplyDeleteThank you, yes there were a lot of changes already taking place well before the "Official" debut of the new Mass. Also in the article, which was written by Fr. Pellegrino Funicelli, he mentions dates of 1966-67, but the actual incident where Padre Pio asked his help with the new Eucharistic prayer possibly did not take place until 1968.
DeleteBut prior to 1969, the changes were not a change of substance. Except perhaps versus populum.
DeleteWe are in no way ignorant of this history. It is precisely because Padre Pio died before the "Mass of Paul VI" was imposed on the Church AFTER Padre Pio died, that he could NOT have been offering or learning the "New Mass" as that term is commonly understood -- since almost everyone understands the "New Mass" to be the post Nov. 1969 Mass, which is so highly objectionable and which Padre Pio never even saw. Can you not understand why this is deceptive???
DeleteAs mentioned previously, I cannot control how other sites label this post. The headline from a site that linked to this article said that Padre Pio learned the New Mass. That is not what I actually say in the post.
DeleteFrank
PADRE PIO TOLD A VISITOR PRIEST THAT HAD BEEN TO SEE HIM FROM THE VATICAN II COUNCIL. THAT THEY NEEDED TO HURRY TO SHORTEN THE COUNCIL. INDEED HE SAW THE GREAT DAMAGE TO COME UNFOLDING !!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI wonder if he said that to Fr Wojtyla when he visited him, who went on to become Pope (saint) John Paul ll?
DeleteIf so, he apparently didn't listen too well...and then became a saint??? How is that possible??? Is the church that messed up???
The only thing necessary to become a saint in new church is to worship the council. Padre Pio certainly did not do that but Wojtyla did.
DeleteFrank is the man! ;-)
ReplyDeleteThe Holy Man on the Mountain was most excellent and extremely inspiring. Thank you and God bless!
ReplyDeletePadre Pio of course knew the canon and the ordinary prayers by heart. The Missal they set up for him had Saint Joseph added to the Communicantes. At consecration (as you see on the video of his last Mass) he prays over the host and chalice not reading from the Missal. He did not want to face the people. This Father Funicelli is giving his own slant on things because he, no doubt, prefers the Novus Ordo.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct Anonymous. The article is historically inaccurate and cannot be substantiated by the facts. As you noted earlier, the Novus Ordo was not promulgated until 1969. Saint Pio died in 1968. How could Padre Pio have celebrated the new order of a Mass, including a reformulated Roman Canon, that did not exist?????? One liturgical clarification: the Eucharistic Prayer identified in the article is also incorrectly named. It is called properly and accurately Eucharist Prayer I in the Novus Ordo or the Roman Canon. As for the Mass, no priest needs permission from the Vatican to celebrate Mass in Latin. It is the official language of the Church and thus always permitted. Those two gross and inaccurate statements in the article make the entire piece suspect.
ReplyDeleteThe 1967 Missal was nearly 100% identical to the Novus Ordo missae.
DeleteOnly slight bare minimum difference between the 1967 and 1969 missals.
Padre Pio wasn't infallible,he wasn't perfect and he wasn't God.
Human beings make mistakes, its in our nature.
Pray for his soul as I am not going to blast a soul to Hell for saying a proto novus ordo missal in the last years of his life.
The 1960's were bar none one of thee most confusing era's in Earth's history.
We can't condemn a sick old man for something that he and most of the world didn't understand or grasp until 25-35 years later.
I DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING THIS AUTHOR HAS PUT OUT ABOUT PADRE PIO,THE CAPUCHINS OF SAN GIOVANNI HAVE BEEN INFILTRATED BY FREEMASONS,SIMPLY LOOK AT THE TEMPLE THEY BUILT IN PADRE PIO'S HONOR TO HOUSE HIS SUPPOSED BODY. ALL MASONICALLY INSPIRED WITH MASONRY SYMBOLISM. CARD. OTTAVANNI WENT TO HIS TOMB WHEN THEY WERE GOING TO OPEN IT FOR INVESTIGATION OF SAINTHOOD AND THE BODY WAS NOT THERE. THEY USE A LOOK ALIKE CADAVER FOR TOURIST MONEY.
Deletehttps://padrepioandchiesaviva.com/Padre_Pio_s_New_Church_.html "GO TO THIS SITE" YOU WILL SEE THE TEMPLE PADRE PIO'S BODY IS SUPPOSEDLY HOUSED IN AND ALL THE MASONIC SYMBOLISM. DISGUSTING !!
DeleteJudging the Novus Ordo Missae in itself and in its official Latin form (printed in 1969)*, Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci wrote to Pope Paul VI:
ReplyDelete...the Novus Ordo represents, both as a whole and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session XXIII of the Council of Trent." (A Brief Critical Study of the Novus Ordo Missae, September 25, 1969)
The Mass supposedly said by Padre Pio could not have been the N.O. he would not have gone against a Dogmatic Council.