After reading an article about the plight of Europe,
"Saker rant about a stolen Europe", I sent the link to my friend Bob, who is
a retired high-ranking U.S. government official (stationed in Europe
for many years), and a Professor Emeritus of International Affairs at a
major university. We exchanged two emails about this article, and with his permission most of that exchange is presented below:
Frank,
Thanks for sending along the “rant.” I’m
not sure where to begin on my comments. I guess first of all I would say
that certainly many of his observations are correct. For example,
today’s Europe is not the one of yesteryear. On
the other hand, today’s US isn’t either. The south increasingly looks
like the north and vice versa. Blacks can now ride anywhere in the bus
they would like and drink from the same water fountains. Much of the
differences that once characterized the north
and south are gone. Is that all bad? I think not.
On the other hand, the author is correct.
There have always been at least two Europes – the one of the north and
the one of the south. On my first visit to Europe in 1960, among the
things that struck me was how much the northern
Europeans felt superior to those in the south, yet to say as the author
does that the Germans and the the Italians have “nothing” in common is a
bit of a stretch. Northern Italians are in many ways very much like
many Germans. The Germans have the 4th largest
economy in the world. Italy has the 8th (most of that economy is from
production in the north). The northern Italians are very productive,
industrious, and creative. I might add that the northern Germans see
themselves as superior to the Bavarians. As a good
north German friend of mind once remarked to me, they don’t even speak
the same language, which if you’ve lived in south Germany you will
recognize as true when the Bavarian dialect is spoken.
Now on the subject of immigrants changing
European society. Well this is of course true. Just as successive waves
of immigrants changed the colonial society of America. Think about the
“Micks, Dagos, Wops, Krauts, Jerrys, Huns,
Wetbacks, Negroes, etc." They definitely changed America. I would say
it enriched our society and continues to do so. So much is in one’s
perspective and sometimes it is an issue of timing. Surely Europe is
being overwhelmed today with a huge influx of immigrants.
They are not easily digested in a few years, perhaps not in decades.
But the Germans, Irish, Italians who came to the this country and
huddled together in unmixed communities, now have largely integrated
into our society. For me this has been a positive.
I should, however, note that the writer is
Swiss, not American. In fact Europeans take ethnicity very seriously.
Often, though not always, If a person is from France, even though living
in and a citizen of Italy, he or she will
often consider themselves French, not Italian. Ask a Mexican who is a
citizen of the US and he will tell you he is an American. This clinging
to ethnicity for identity is perhaps changing a bit with the younger
generations, But it will take decades not years.
Now for Muslims. There has been a very
strong anti-Muslim feeling that predominates in Europe. It is not new.
It predates current immigration problems. Perhaps it goes back to the
Crusades. However, one of my first encounters with
this was in the mid-1980s when Turkey was being considered for
membership in the EU. Sitting with an ambassador, friend and colleague
of mine at a banquet marking the 40th anniversary of the formation of
Allied (NATO) Forces Southern Command, the conversation
turned to Turkey’s possible inclusion in the EU. After a long list of
why, for economic reasons, Turkey should not be admitted to the EU, his
bottom line was captured when he said to me “Bob, they just aren’t like
us. We are a Christian people, they are Moslems.”
Well, There is perhaps not enough time for me to deal with all of the issues our “ranter” raises. Let me touch on a few.
"Just remember that Daesh is CIA-controlled.” Rubbish
"The EU is essentially a US project via
the Bilderbergers and the Zionist lobby in Europe.” Me thinks he forgets
the Robert Schumans, the Paul Reuters, the Jean Monnets, etc.
I find his rants against the so-called
AngloZionists outrageous and unsupported by fact. On the other hand, I
do agree that Russians, while admiring the industriousness of northern
Europe, find themselves more comfortable with
the the southerners. Having traveled widely all over Russia, we find
many of the Russians to be more like southern than northern European.
"Muslims are here to stay. You can hate it
or love it, but that is a fact. Fact 2: Islam, real Islam as opposed to
Wahabi Islam, is categorically opposed to AngloZionism.” Probably much
on target, though I personally would separate
the “Anglo” from the “Zionism."
"Call me crazy, but I am coming the
conclusion that Turkey, at least in its present form, is inherently a
dangerous and non-reformable entity which must be beat back to a size
and quality commensurate with the notion of “normal
country”. Erdogan is potentially a problem. But the Turks aren’t
stupid. They have already shown their concern over Erdogan’s grab for
more power.
After receiving this email, I sent the following note to my friend:
Bob,
Thanks for your observations - I was
surprised to receive such a thorough analysis! Agreed about how good
immigration has been especially for the USA. Only problem is that a
certain element of the Muslim community does not want
to integrate in our society, but actually wants to destroy. That is why
we do need some kind of filtering, profiling or whatever you want to
call it, over the immigrants coming in.
What interested me greatly was your
comment that Russians are more comfortable with southern Europeans. I
wonder if this is because the southerners are more religious. From what I
have read, the Russians have a deep religious spirit
(except for those who became communist). I think they even refer to
Russia as "Holy Mother Russia."
Bob then replied with these additional observations:
Frank,
On the Russians, most of those I’ve met
that are not senior officials in the government (who often feel they
have to be serious since they represent their government), seem to have a
fun loving, easy, Latin spirit to them. They
love to sing songs and get together. Even when they get pretty smashed
on vodka, they can be a lot of fun. This perhaps stands in contrast to
some, perhaps many, northern Europeans, particularly north Germans, who
to me seem to be much more serious.
My experiences don’t link this fun loving
attitude on the part of Russians to religion. Though as you suggest,
Russians, indeed almost anyone on earth may be more religious than most
northern Europeans, except the Poles and a few
others. When we lived in England I think the figure was 15% of the
English were church goers. And that might have been a number on the high
side. On the other hand, don’t jump too quickly to the conclusion that
southern Europeans are serious about their religion.
When we lived in Italy, many Italians went to church. However, that
might have meant ducking in for a few minutes, maybe to hear the Gospel,
maybe not. Now if you want to live where people seemingly are serious
about religion, come to the Bible Belt. On the
other hand, I often feel that many here in the South don’t really have a
clue about what Christianity is really about.
As for the Muslims, surely you are correct
in asserting that some Muslims are here to destroy our society. I don’t
find that particularly surprising. Just like the non-Muslims who have
sought to destroy our society and what it
represents (think Black Panthers, the Oklahoma bombing of Federal
building, the bombing of Synagogues, etc.), these people need to be
sorted out, rooted out if already entrenched, and removed. However, one
must be careful in the process to not stigmatize and
in turn alienate the entire community of Muslims, the great majority of
whom are decent, law abiding, and just plan good American citizens. To
do so would be very un-American.
I have traveled widely in Muslim countries
– e.g. Egypt, Libya, Morocco , Turkey, Azerbaijan, all of central Asia.
I have Muslim friends from Pakistan and elsewhere around the globe. I
have found Muslims to be a very friendly,
open, and hospitable people.
Best Regards,
Bob
